Numerology and Pro Tools

[codedwire]

I just purchased Numerology Pro and and I'm trying to figure out the best way to integrate it into a Pro Tools 10 workflow. I did a quick test with ReWire and that seems to work, but I was hoping to use it as a plug-in by wrapping the VST.

I ran the VST to RTAS Adapter (fxpansion) and Numerology loads as a plug-in in Pro Tools, but it does not start when the Pro Tools transport starts. I tried the (unwrapped) VST in Ableton Live and when the Live transport is engaged the Numerology plug-in starts, but this does not seem to work in Pro Tools.

Has anyone tried using the wrapped VST in Pro Tools and been able to get it to work? If so, what am I missing? Thanks!

[jim]

Either ReWire or MIDI Sync is the way to go with ProTools. AFAIK, (and please, someone let me know if I am wrong), RTAS does not support MIDI output from a plugin, so even if N3 worked flawlessly in the wrapper, it would not help -- there would be no way to get MIDI from it to PT.

On the ReWire vs. MIDI Sync front:

- Rewire is more convenient, and if you are primarily sending MIDI to instruments hosted in Numerology, you will not have any timing issues. However, MIDI sent from the ReWire driver does not have the same timing accuracy as when N3 is run standalone. ReWire also gets you multi-channel no-latency audio streaming w/o having to use something like Soundflower.

- Standalone + MIDI Sync : more hassle to setup, but much more flexible all around, and very accurate timing -- but yes, you will get some latency when sending MIDI From Numerology to PT, just as you would from any hardware sequencer or synth.

And remember: you can switch between the two as you see fit.

Long term: it is possible that AAX will support MIDI output from the plugin into PT 10. I'll be inquiring about it with Avid dev support.

Best,
Jim

[codedwire]

Thanks for the suggestions Jim. I've only had Numerology for a few days so far, and now I wish I had it a long time ago :-) Anyway, I'm still finding my way around the app and learning how it works and what it can do. I'm really excited about the possibilities!

Regarding Pro Tools and Numerology integration, I think ReWire will work pretty well to get started. I did attempt running Numerology as a plug-in within Vienna Ensemble Pro 5 (which can be hosted within a Pro Tools session), but the Vienna Ensemble Pro Server crashed as soon a Numerology was instantiated (not sure why as I haven't seen this with any other plug-in). I also tried loading Numerology into Maschine instance hosted in a Pro Tools session, but since the Numerology plug-in doesn't host plug-in instruments and MIDI cannot be routed from one "Sound" to another within Maschine, that didn't work either.

Regarding MIDI output from an RTAS plug-in, Sugar Bytes recently released an RTAS version of their step-sequencer "Thesys". With Thesys you create two instrument tracks in Pro Tools: one that hosts Thesys and one that host the instrument to be controlled by Thesys. On the controlled instrument track you set the MIDI input to the Thesys instance and record enable the track. MIDI generated by Thesys is then routed to the instrument.

Anyway, I'm still learning the basics of Numerology and as I mentioned ReWire should work fine for now, but it would be nice to see an RTAS or AAX plug-in for Pro Tools sometime in the future :-)

Thanks again for the reply, and thanks for creating Numerology -- it truly is a amazing app!

[jim]

Thanks for the suggestions Jim. I've only had Numerology for a few days so far, and now I wish I had it a long time ago :-) Anyway, I'm still finding my way around the app and learning how it works and what it can do. I'm really excited about the possibilities!

Awesome!

Regarding Pro Tools and Numerology integration, I think ReWire will work pretty well to get started. I did attempt running Numerology as a plug-in within Vienna Ensemble Pro 5 (which can be hosted within a Pro Tools session), but the Vienna Ensemble Pro Server crashed as soon a Numerology was instantiated (not sure why as I haven't seen this with any other plug-in). I also tried loading Numerology into Maschine instance hosted in a Pro Tools session, but since the Numerology plug-in doesn't host plug-in instruments and MIDI cannot be routed from one "Sound" to another within Maschine, that didn't work either.

Funny, VEP 5 has been coming up a lot for me lately. I have fixed the crash that happens when loading N3 in it, that fix will be out with the next build.

Regarding MIDI output from an RTAS plug-in, Sugar Bytes recently released an RTAS version of their step-sequencer "Thesys". With Thesys you create two instrument tracks in Pro Tools: one that hosts Thesys and one that host the instrument to be controlled by Thesys. On the controlled instrument track you set the MIDI input to the Thesys instance and record enable the track. MIDI generated by Thesys is then routed to the instrument.

Crazy -- but as you can see, the crazy lengths MIDI developers have to go to, in order to integrate with the big DAWs (that don't support VST...).

Anyway, I'm still learning the basics of Numerology and as I mentioned ReWire should work fine for now, but it would be nice to see an RTAS or AAX plug-in for Pro Tools sometime in the future :-)

Duly noted. I'm always looking at ways to make the integration task better....

Thanks again for the reply, and thanks for creating Numerology -- it truly is a amazing app!

Groovy, thanks again!

Cheers,
Jim

[Kan Kaban]

Hi to everyone.

I´m just trying Numerology, and think it´s the best in it´s kind.

I´m at Protools 9, and had luck wrapping the vst as someone stated.

I can use it as an insert, but I don´t know how to route midi out or to record midi from Numerology to a track.

When I look at the midi out in the Numerology stack, my interface midi out port doesn´t appear.

Any clue?.

Tks.

[Kan Kaban]

Oh, sorry, I just looked to the answer about the midi out issue at Protools...

So, as the standalone + MIDI Sync is my setup, how do I adjust latency issues?

Tks again.

[jim]

Oh, sorry, I just looked to the answer about the midi out issue at Protools...

So, as the standalone + MIDI Sync is my setup, how do I adjust latency issues?

Tks again.

Offhand, I can think of a few options:

- If ProTools has some sort of adjustable track-delay compensation use that.
- If you are using N3 pro, consider using the Clock Offset module (in the "CV Processing module group) -- adding a small offset will cause any sequencers that use the resulting clock to run a touch ahead. It can be a bit tricky to fine tune, though.
- If you are mostly using AU instruments, consider using N3 in ReWire mode and hosting those plugins in Numerology.
- Worst case (but it works) : manually add compensating delays to all other tracks. A pain to setup, but you should only have to do it once.

Also: to minimize delay, use shorter audio buffers if you can (i.e. 128 samples)

One of my todo items: add the delay-compensation feature in the N3 AUs to the ReWire driver.

Cheers,
Jim