patching SYSEX

[bagger288]

another silly question. When patching a midi input through to another output, is 100% of the data transferred, including SYSEX? I've been having problems sending sysex to some of my synths, and I wanted to make sure numerology wasn't the blocking point.

For instance, right now, I am sending a midi output from my novation remote zero into my tapco link 4x4 interface, and then patching it through one of the stacks in numerology out to a synth. I assume this should work, but I'm not sure.

thanks!

[jim]

Numerology doesn't pass sysex, as I didn't see a reason until you mentioned your setup, will put it on my list...

Jim

[Per Boysen]

Just a quick note on SySex: The structure of SySex data is different than MIDI note and MIDI CC data. The main difference being that packages can be much longer and this means it is not a suitable format for anything that relies on musical timing. For example, I once tried to set up a real-time filter control for an analog Oberheim module controled by MIDI SySex. It was in praxis unusable because the synth's filter moved a second after I had tweaked the physical controler.

SySex is very good though, for backing up sound library patches and similar stuff. But I'm not sure I can see the point in doing that with Numerology?

[bagger288]

well, essentially, I don't ahve enough midi i/o, and because I already have all my synths plugged into my midi interface directly, I am trying to re-route sysex messages that I am using to edit my synths via my midi controller. so yeah, i'm not trying to do anything fancy, i'm just trying to do some routing.

[jim]

FYI: Sysex packets in OS X (CoreMIDI) are pretty easy to deal with: they are always in separate MIDI packets, so I don't have to parse for them. It is just a matter of storing the data and passing it through. Some keyboards, such as the Korg Z1 I have, send sysex as a way to record complex parameter changes.

Jim

[bagger288]

well, I'm taking a look at my data in midi monitor, and it appears that the sysex messages I am transmitting disappear somewhere inside numerology, as I'm receiving them from my controller, but they aren't being transmitted through to the output of numerology. I used the application "midi patchbay" and was able to successfully patch the sysex through. It would be nice, however, if there was an option for doing this internally in numerology. A "midi monitor" module in the miscellaneous modules section would be great, too.

[Sjoerd]

For some of my beloved hardware synths (e.g. Alpha Juno / MKS-50, JX-8P), SysEx is pretty much the only way to go to modulate stuff you'd typically use MIDI CC# for (envelopes, filter cut-off, resonance, etc.).

This is hardly "complex" stuff, of course, just plain patch parameter tweaking. I'd love direct support for sequencing/modulating this type of instruments (i.e. using such 'simple' SysEx messages), but can also live with the workarounds I currently use. Now I typically just use MIDI CC# for most of the data flow path, and then convert it (using custom solutions) into the proper SysEx messages right before being sent out to those machines that need it.

[amsonx]

Now I typically just use MIDI CC# for most of the data flow path, and then convert it (using custom solutions) into the proper SysEx messages right before being sent out to those machines that need it.

i'm really curios about your custom solution about convert CC into the proper sysex.
Can you explain this (if you want) ?

[Sjoerd]

i'm really curios about your custom solution about convert CC into the proper sysex.
Can you explain this (if you want) ?
Sure. I'm currently using Jesusonic inside Reaper for this stuff, but I'm sure it can also be done in e.g. Logic's Environment, or Pure data / Max/MSP, etc.

The basic concept is very simple, a SysEx message to e.g. a Juno's filter cutoff is just a slightly bigger but way more specific packet of bytes than a MIDI CC#. Once you know what specific format a control of some synth (or effect) takes (usually you look it up in the manual), it's just a matter of making a simple script that listens to a particular MIDI controller, and sends SysEx messages taking that particular format. The byte that represents the incoming MIDI CC# value is simply copied into a SysEx message at the appropriate place, then sent out.

Typically, SysEx messages for a particular device take a general form, where each particular control is represented by some byte in the SysEx message. Then you can make one big script for many/all of its parameters, by mapping each one to a separate incoming MIDI CC#.

I can post a simple example later, when I have access to those JS scripts (not at home atm). It would only work in Reaper of course, but I can recommend giving that a good try anyway - the audio routing possibilities are crazy.