clocked CV feedback - how?

[Jens Groh]

I am stuck with an idea for a Numerology setup where the CV value of the current step of a sequencer should determine the next step. Is this possible?
I have prepared an example project (http://www.optimolch.de/jens.groh/Misc/fbtest01.nmp) in which a modulation sequencer controls its own "current step" parameter in a feedback manner, so that I can create some nice weird loops of the sequencer state. This works somewhat, but it runs with the CV rate (that can be adjusted in the module's advanced settings panel to low/medium/high), which is not related to the main "beat" clock. I would like to let the feedback process run with a regular, say, 16th note clock. But for that, it seems I would have to modulate not the "current step" but something like a "next step", which does not exist.
Does anyone have an idea for a solution?

[jim]

Howdy.

First, my apologies for not responding sooner. I'm not really sure yet how to do this. There are some things coming in the pro pack that may make this easy (math operators), so I'll keep this application in mind when I write those modules.

Jim

[Jens Groh]

What I'm trying to create is basically a finite state machine, and what seems to be missing is not math, but a clocked state memory. For now, the sequencer module is just used as a look-up table for the states.
But I think I have found a solution that works, albeit not the most elegant one. If I convert the CV to a MIDI note and back to CV, the note follows the (16th or whatever) clock, and the extracted CV, which controls the 'current step' parameter of the sequencer, actually determines the step after the note, thus the next step.
I can post an example if someone is interested.

[jim]

Have you tried using the Sample & Hold module? You can use it as an 8 step (clockable) shift register....

Jim

[Jens Groh]

Thank you, I'll have a look. S&H is a module I have not yet learned to use.

[Jens Groh]

No luck, I don't get it. Yes, S&H seems to store (and shift) the CV values coming from some sequencer module. But for whatever reason I don't get them to control the next sequencer step, like with my other approaches. :(
Will use the MIDI workaround...

[jue]

Hello,

not shure fore what you are looking exactly, made this project.
Not knowing what it makes, because i got it only working with a MonoNote this way. Discretseqs react in another way??
There is a difference between them Jim?

best
jue

[Jens Groh]

Thank you. But it doesn't seem to work for me. It plays exactly the MonoNote sequence in forward order all the time, even if I modify the mapping that is performed by the ModulationSeq.
This is similar to what I experienced using a loop consisting of a ModulationSeq, a Sample & Hold and a ParamMod.

[Jens Groh]

not shure fore what you are looking exactly [...]
This (http://www.optimolch.de/jens.groh/Misc/recu02.nmp.zip) is the closest I could get to.

[jue]

Hello,

this is an example were the note that is played at the IntervalSeq sets the value for the next step.
Its not perfect but the nearest point were I could get closest in the moment.
Please note that it is easy possible to come in small loops from your made settings, so change the settings again.

Possible this works for you Jens?

best
jue

[Jens Groh]

Hello jue,

yes, that's pretty much what I meant, and it works. (Though it needs at least a "M" modulation rate if the notes come very fast.) Interesting idea to control both start and end step, not the current step! I was wondering whether this is what makes it work, or the inserted S&H module. So I made a minimal patch (http://www.optimolch.de/jens.groh/Misc/recu03.nmp.zip) with only an IntervalSeq and a ParamMod and no S&H, and this too works. Strangely, without a halt -- you will see.
And watch what happens when you increase the slew value: The precise, original sequence gradually breaks apart and other, not always regular, cycles evolve instead.

Please note that it is easy possible to come in small loops from your made settings, so change the settings again.
Yes, I know. This is the point from where I want to start making the feedback loop more complex.
To me, the variety of possible short and long cyclic sequences that may all be contained in one mapping and so close to each other makes it intriguing to experiment with them.

[jue]

Hello,

very nice, now I got the idea to take two, three or four stacks like our examples and make them record some notes from the former Seq in a complex loop.
Like the second records from the first the third from the second the fourth from the third and the first from the fourth....
and use a FaderBox for inserting some new values at different seqs and steps.....

best
jue

[Jens Groh]

I have modified your project (http://www.optimolch.de/jens.groh/Misc/nextsteprun02.nmp.zip) so that it is more reduced to the essentials, to help others to understand the principle.

[jim]

Wow, absolutely crazy stuff! There is actually a 'next step' variable inside the sequencer implementation, so it might be possible to expose that for param mod, however, I don't know if that could cause timing or stability problems or not, will have to investigate first....

Best,
Jim

[Jens Groh]

Wow, absolutely crazy stuff!
Glad you like it! :)

There is actually a 'next step' variable inside the sequencer implementation, so it might be possible to expose that for param mod[...]
That would be great!