Logic 8 and Numerology2 (Recording MIDI/Sync BPM) [Archive] - Five12.net -- Online Forum for the Numerology Music Sequencer

bruno garza

09-27-2009, 03:03 PM

Here's 3 video tutorials on how to setup Numerology2 with Logic 8.

To keep the video short, I just work with 3 MIDI channels, but you can use all 16 MIDI channels from Numerology2. (Well, actually all 64 MIDI channels with Numerology2)

One thing that I found out by accident was, if I use the MIDI Clock but thru IAC, Numerology2 will sync on BPM with Logic 8 once I change the BPM in Logic 8.

http://www.digimixstudios.net/Numerology2Logic8Setup/

Per Boysen

09-28-2009, 04:10 AM

Great videos! I learned a new trick for Logic from you :-)) How to split a midi region into multiple regions sorted by midi channel in the note data. Usually I use a Logic command called Explode Notes by MIDI Channel for this, but the trick you showed us - to export a midi file and drag it back in at an empty part of the arrange window canvas - that's even faster and simpler. Thanks a lot!

bruno garza

09-28-2009, 05:35 PM

No problem. I learn tricks like that from others as well.

Man, I've been having fun with Numerology2.
Amazing piece of software, even more so now that I have it working great with Logic 8.

vanhaze

04-24-2010, 06:40 AM

Hi Bruno,

I am a logic user too and your video's helped a lot for me.
They are very clear.

So a big thanx !!

Kind regards,

Rob

Agrivex

06-16-2010, 10:26 AM

Cheers for this! Very very helpful :)

Logos Lover

11-01-2010, 09:26 PM

jim

11-03-2010, 12:11 AM

The video is down. Any chance of putting it back up please?

I'll email Bruno to see what's up. I'm also working on one that will cover setups both for the app and the AU.

Cheers,
Jim

Logos Lover

11-03-2010, 03:15 PM

Thanks Jim. Hope those vids will be back on line soon.

I've been trying to get N3 and Logic 9 working together using ReWire, but i've no prior knowledge of using this at all.

When using ReWire what is it exactly that im doing...?
a) Midi data from Numerology is sent to Logic to control instruments setup on Logic tracks
or b) Numerology stacks are set up and controlling midi instruments and audio routed from Numerology and then into Logic?

Sorry if that's a basic question.....

I should also mention that i only use hardware synths so what's my best route if using ReWire to have the tighest timing sync between the two? I work with a 32 sample audio buffer in Logic, software monitoring on, and find this gives me no noticeable latency with my hardware synths.

jim

11-03-2010, 08:15 PM

When using ReWire what is it exactly that im doing...?
a) Midi data from Numerology is sent to Logic to control instruments setup on Logic tracks
or b) Numerology stacks are set up and controlling midi instruments and audio routed from Numerology and then into Logic?

You can do both, or either. For the most accurate timing, it is better to host instruments in Numerology and pipe the resulting audio into Logic for recording. However, that will not work for Logic's built-in instruments, so in that case you have to route MIDI from Numerology to Logic. That does introduce some latency. I'm working on a solution for that with the AU version and plan to port it over to the ReWire driver once it has settled down a bit.

FYI: a 32 sample buffer is extremely small, so keep a close eye on the CPU monitor.

Also, feel free to tell me more about your setup, I may have further suggestions.

Cheers,
Jim

bruno garza

11-04-2010, 07:46 AM

The video is down. Any chance of putting it back up please?

The video is back up.
I notice your further posts with Jim.

The video shows how to setup using IAC and not Rewire.

I notice you guys mentioned latency, but for me that's not an issue only because my main goal was to get MIDI out of Numerology into Logic for playback first, but then eventually to record into Logic.

Once its in Logic in its own track with MIDI data, if anything was slightly out of sync, I just quantize the MIDI data for all the channels, then latency goes away.

Using the Logic Enviroment, you would just cable to a MIDI out device to your hardware synth.
Let me know if you want a video of that, I have a Korg Triton Rack and can show how to set that up for hardware synths.

bruno garza

11-04-2010, 08:05 AM

you have to route MIDI from Numerology to Logic. That does introduce some latency.
Now that I think about this, I know you'd get latency from audio, but how would you get latency from MIDI.
MIDI has timing information that you can send before the note is played so when the time comes for a note to play, it'll play then, not when it gets the MIDI note information.

Of course if someone is playing the notes, it's not latency. :)

Logos Lover

11-06-2010, 07:09 PM

For the most accurate timing, it is better to host instruments in Numerology and pipe the resulting audio into Logic for recording.

I have Logic and NSE 3 and i'm trying to sync them using the method you mention Jim.

In Logic I have my hardware SQ80 synth with one midi track, and one audio track with input monitoring turned on.

In NSE I have a stack with a mononote, with midi input as "SQ80" and audio input as "audio bus A" ( i have no other options to chose from apart from audio busses A-H) Not sure what "Audio Bus A" is but it's selected as NSE audio input.

Midi output is set to "SQ80" BUT "audio output" is set to "None" YET I still hear the SQ80 coming through the mixer in Logic!!

This can only mean that i have not set things up correct for audio to be streamed from Numerology through to Logic, and it must mean that NSE is instead sending midi data to Logic, then to the SQ80 synth, which in turn I can hear through the input monitoring enabled audio channel.

How do I get audio from the hardware synth in NSE 3 piped through to Logic's mixer via ReWire without midi data being sent to Logic, and in turn onto the SQ80 midi channel set up there?

jim

11-07-2010, 11:20 AM

I have Logic and NSE 3 and i'm trying to sync them using the method you mention Jim.

In Logic I have my hardware SQ80 synth with one midi track, and one audio track with input monitoring turned on.

In NSE I have a stack with a mononote, with midi input as "SQ80" and audio input as "audio bus A" ( i have no other options to chose from apart from audio busses A-H) Not sure what "Audio Bus A" is but it's selected as NSE audio input.

Midi output is set to "SQ80" BUT "audio output" is set to "None" YET I still hear the SQ80 coming through the mixer in Logic!!

This can only mean that i have not set things up correct for audio to be streamed from Numerology through to Logic, and it must mean that NSE is instead sending midi data to Logic, then to the SQ80 synth, which in turn I can hear through the input monitoring enabled audio channel.

How do I get audio from the hardware synth in NSE 3 piped through to Logic's mixer via ReWire without midi data being sent to Logic, and in turn onto the SQ80 midi channel set up there?

In ReWire mode, there's no audio input in Numerology, so you have to route audio directly from the SQ80 into Logic via Logic's audio inputs. Based on what you describe above, it looks like that is already happening, but I'd have to see your Logic setup to know more. My comment about "hosting instruments in Numerology" only applies to AUs. For hardware synths, just route MIDI from Numerology to the synth, then capture the audio in the DAW.

Also, the "Audio Bus A" is one of Numerology's internal audio busses that are usually used for aux sends.

Feel free to post (or email me) w/ more info about your setup and what you want to do and I may have more tips.

Cheers,
Jim

Logos Lover

11-07-2010, 11:52 AM

For hardware synths, just route MIDI from Numerology to the synth, then capture the audio in the DAW.
Cheers,
Jim

Is this best done using Bruno's method?

To route only midi from Numerology to the hardware synth in Logic, what should I have my various menu's set to in Numerology?

And to just leave the "audio" tabs set to none?

ignatius

11-07-2010, 11:58 AM

Is this best done using Bruno's method?

To route only midi from Numerology to the hardware synth in Logic,

what? i'm confused by what you are asking. are you routing midi from N3 into logic then out to hardware synths?

when i want to record my hardware boxes that are being played by numerology i just route the audio into logic and press record in logic and then play on numerology.. then i go back after the recording is done and trim the beginning of the audio files in logic and make sure i have the tempos set the same.

i just let them run unsync'd because i'm just recording the audio and it doesn't really matter. Logc is just acting like a tape machine recording the hardware. Midi goes from Numerology directly to the hardware and not through anything else.

jim

11-07-2010, 12:00 PM

Is this best done using Bruno's method?

You only need to do that if you are controlling instruments in Logic. Logic's default MIDI setup sends *all* MIDI coming into the program to all instrument plugins by default -- that's fine if you have a single keyboard controller, not so great otherwise. Logic also has some odd rules on how MIDI is routed to instrument tracks set to record. The end result is that you have to dig into the Environment setup and make changes it if you want something different.

In your case, since you are directly addressing a hardware MIDI port, so you don't have to worry about Logic seeing that MIDI stream.

To route only midi from Numerology to the hardware synth in Logic, what should I have my various menu's set to in Numerology?

Just set the MIDI out of the Numerology stack to point to the SQ80 and you should be fine. Create an audio track in Logic and set the audio input for that track to be the appropriate channels on your audio interface where the SQ80 is connected.

And to just leave the "audio" tabs set to none?

Yep!

Cheers,
Jim

Logos Lover

11-07-2010, 12:11 PM

bruno garza

11-08-2010, 09:17 AM

...then i go back after the recording is done and trim the beginning of the audio files in logic and make sure i have the tempos set the same.

Keep your setup the same but setup the MIDI Clock on Logic and Numerology with IAC (like I show in my video), then there's no need to trim your recorded audio in Logic because your recorded audio is already sync'd to the tempo you started in Logic.

bruno garza

11-08-2010, 09:33 AM

what? i'm confused by what you are asking. are you routing midi from N3 into logic then out to hardware synths?

when i want to record my hardware boxes that are being played by numerology i just route the audio into logic and press record in logic and then play on numerology.. then i go back after the recording is done and trim the beginning of the audio files in logic and make sure i have the tempos set the same.

i just let them run unsync'd because i'm just recording the audio and it doesn't really matter. Logc is just acting like a tape machine recording the hardware. Midi goes from Numerology directly to the hardware and not through anything else.
If you route all MIDI data into Logic, you can still hear the song with your hardware device with your current setup, but instead of recording the audio, MIDI data is saved in Logic in an Instrument Track.
Again, there's no need to "trim" any audio at that point either since everything is MIDI.

On playback, you can play to your hardware device (and eventually record to audio) or you can loaded and play other software instruments to see if maybe another instrument sounds better with the MIDI data that was captured and recorded from Numerology.

ignatius

11-08-2010, 02:16 PM

If you route all MIDI data into Logic, you can still hear the song with your hardware device with your current setup, but instead of recording the audio, MIDI data is saved in Logic in an Instrument Track.
Again, there's no need to "trim" any audio at that point either since everything is MIDI.

On playback, you can play to your hardware device (and eventually record to audio) or you can loaded and play other software instruments to see if maybe another instrument sounds better with the MIDI data that was captured and recorded from Numerology.

like i said.. i tend to use logic as a tape machine. keep it simple.. limits editing obsessiveness and captures the feel of a jam session.

i get all my sounds right long before i'm ready to record.. then tweak various midi parameters in numerology or FX settings of hardware FX units etc.

it's just a different way of working.

i guess capturing the midi simultaneously is a good idea though depending on the song etc. i may set up a template for that in logic.

Logos Lover

11-08-2010, 07:21 PM

Just set the MIDI out of the Numerology stack to point to the SQ80 and you should be fine. Create an audio track in Logic and set the audio input for that track to be the appropriate channels on your audio interface where the SQ80 is connected.

Jim

Good news!!! It worked as you said it would Jim :D

BUT.... there always is a but.....

When I record the hardware synths output to an audio track, i'd say that it's late by somewhere in the region of 6 ms. (average from 294 samples to 372 samples late off the grid)

Will the soon to be added to the SE version "Clock Offset" cure this?

FWIW Using Logic 9, Unitor 8, audio buffer of 32 samples, the worst case scenario midi jitter I've tested was around 1.7 ms!!! Tighter than an Atari/Notator/Unitor 2 set up which I also tested (2.2ms) !! And this was with Logic 9 under HEAVY CPU load. So I know that Logic 9 can be very tight on midi.

Just need Numerology to work as tight with it.

bruno garza

11-08-2010, 07:52 PM

like i said.. i tend to use logic as a tape machine. keep it simple.. limits editing obsessiveness and captures the feel of a jam session.

i get all my sounds right long before i'm ready to record.. then tweak various midi parameters in numerology or FX settings of hardware FX units etc.

it's just a different way of working.

i guess capturing the midi simultaneously is a good idea though depending on the song etc. i may set up a template for that in logic.

That's cool, everyone has their way of working, just wanted to point the MIDI thing out.

jim

11-08-2010, 11:37 PM

When I record the hardware synths output to an audio track, i'd say that it's late by somewhere in the region of 6 ms. (average from 294 samples to 372 samples late off the grid)

Will the soon to be added to the SE version "Clock Offset" cure this?

I'll be adding something. I don't know if it will be the same clock offset system available in Pro now, or something else. I'm still working it out with the AU.

FWIW Using Logic 9, Unitor 8, audio buffer of 32 samples, the worst case scenario midi jitter I've tested was around 1.7 ms!!! Tighter than an Atari/Notator/Unitor 2 set up which I also tested (2.2ms) !! And this was with Logic 9 under HEAVY CPU load. So I know that Logic 9 can be very tight on midi.

Just need Numerology to work as tight with it.

Just to clarify the difference between latency and jitter (which, btw, I'll be adding all this to the new manual):

Latency is the delay in time from when you'd like something to happen (hear the midi note) until when it happens. Reducing audio buffer size reduces latency, etc. The clock offset module in N3 Pro allows one to reduce MIDI latency between one app and another or between an app and a hardware device, etc.

Jitter, when talking about MIDI, is a small, random variation in timing, typically on the order of a single ms or so, and on OS X happens when you try to generate MIDI without proper timestamps.

I'm working now to tightly control both in the AU right now. For the App, Jitter is a non-issue running standalone. Latency I haven't really checked, but will soon. In ReWire mode, jitter is a bit of an issue, but I can reuse the scheduling algorithm from the AU to improve it.

Cheers,
Jim

Logos Lover

11-09-2010, 06:35 AM

Just to clarify the difference between latency and jitter (which, btw, I'll be adding all this to the new manual):

Jim

Sorry got a bit side tracked in my post, but to confirm I was testing midi jitter variance with L9 Vs Atari. There is also midi latency depending on each hardware synths reaction time to midi data, but by using the delay function for each track in L9, I can pretty much record hardware synths bang on the grid....... with a max jitter of 1.7 ms of course :)