Roadmap : Numerology 3 and the Five12 Sequencer Kit

[jim]

This posting is to reveal some details on the future development plans for Numerology and related plugins. As with all plans, they will probably change a bit, but the overall picture currently looks like this:

Updates on Numerology 2.2 and the MonoNote AU

Early builds and testing of the MonoNote AU has gone very well. Everyone loves having the MonoNote as a plugin, and the integration advantages seem to outweigh any issues regarding latency. I have two major features to finish coding, and a few smaller ones, but once those are done (my current estimate is 2-3 weeks), I will make a public build available.

As anyone who has examined the early screenshots may have guessed, the MonoNote AU leverages a lot from the main Numerology code base. What this means is that once all the "hosting details" are taken care of (i.e. MIDI transmission, AU params and presets, etc.), then I can pretty easily start making versions of other Numerology modules. More on that later.

For Numerology 2.2, there will be a one or two more beta builds, then I will move it to "release candidate" status, with the expectation that it will be released at about the same time as the MonoNote AU goes "public beta".

Numerology 3

After Numerology 2.2 is released, the next big development push will be for what I call the Numerology 3 development cycle. This includes the following products:

- The MonoNote AU

- Numerology 3, (N3) a paid upgrade for Numerology 2.

- Numerology 3 Pro, (N3 Pro) a new, expanded version of Numerology.

- The Five12 Sequencer Kit : (FSK) a set of 5 Audio Unit sequencing plugins, comprised of AU versions of several sequencing modules from Numerology: the MonoNote, the PolyNote, the Drum Sequencer, the Chord Sequencer, and a Discrete Sequencing combo (some combination of Interval, Gate & Velocity sequencers that I have not finalized yet).

So we are jumping from one product to four, at three different price points. Each product has a specific focus in terms of what users may be looking for, and this has perhaps made everything a bit more complicated than it needs to be. But the benefit is that it gives users the ability to choose what fits their workflow the best. This new product mix will also help me determine where to focus my efforts based on which products are the most popular.

- The MonoNote AU is the entry-level, super-inexpensive "try out the Numerology concept" product. If you have a Numerology 2 or 3 license, you get to use the MonoNote AU for no extra charge.

- Numerology 3 is the mainstream upgrade for folks who prefer to run Numerology standalone, but for whom it is perhaps not the center of their sequencing setup, or they are not ready to upgrade to the Pro version.

- The Five12 Sequencer Kit is for users who specifically want to run plugin versions of Numerology sequencers.

- Numerology 3 Pro is for those who want everything. An N3 Pro license gets you both Numerology 3 with a significantly expanded feature set, and the ability to run all the plugins in the FSK.

Pricing

Tentative pricing for these producs (in US Dollars) is:

MonoNote AU : $39
Numerology 3 : $119
Five12 Sequencer Kit : $119
Numerology 3 Pro : $199

Upgrades & Crossgrades

I see Numerology 3 and the FSK as "sibling" products, so they are priced the same, but you can easily crossgrade between them: Owners of either product will be able to crossgrade for $40.

A quick note: there will be discounts on most upgrades and crossgrades during what I call the "trial period", more on that in a bit.

Numerology 3 Pro is the "umbrella" product: If you have a license for it, you get access to everything. The standard price for upgrading to N3 Pro from either N3 or the FSK is $80, or $40 if you have already bought a crossgrade for N3 or the FSK.

The MonoNote AU will be available standalone as an "entry-level" plugin, and you can upgrade from that to the FSK for $80, and from there to the N3 crossgrade or the Pro version.

The upgrade from Numerology 2 to Numerology 3 will $40, and that includes the FSK crossgrade. Or you can upgrade directly to N3 Pro for $80.


Betas & the Trial Period


My experience using a private beta test group for the early MonoNote AU builds has been very successful, so I plan to expand it a bit. Instead of following my usual path of releasing a lot of early builds to anyone that is interested, I will limit early builds of N3, N3 Pro and the FSK to the private beta group.

Public builds of the new products will become available once they are reasonably stable, and most features are in place. So that means that it will be longer before you get any public betas to try, but when you get them, they will be more usable.

Once public builds of N3, N3 Pro and the FSK are available, then licenses will be available for regular users to purchase, if they want to be early adopters, or they can wait until the main release. This is what I referred to as the "trial period". It will last from when the first public betas of the new products are released, until a few days after their final release. During that time, crossgrades between N3 and the FSK, and upgrades to N3 Pro will be discounted a bit (I don't know how much yet).


Features

I can't say exactly what all features will be in N3 or N3 Pro, but much of what will be there has been discussed at some point on the forum. I should also point out that many of the features that will become available have already been prototyped, so development will proceed very quickly.

Here are a few highlights:

N3 & N3 Pro:
- A new UI based on the one used by the MonoNote AU.
- Better options for importing & exporting modules.
- Various usability tweaks and other features.

N3 Pro:
- Extensive OSC support
- A new remote-control protocol, with both MIDI and OSC support
- New logic modules
- New audio processing modules
- New synthesis options
- Programmable user scales
- Per-stack audio recording
- Support for multi-output AU's (and sidechain inputs)
- Many other items

Features for the FSK will mirror what is happening with the MonoNote AU; just use your imagination to visualize how the other modules will look and work in that environment.


Numerology 3.1 and 3.2

As I cannot squeeze everything into the Numerology 3.0 release, some features will be postponed to following releases. There will be no separate upgrade charges for those releases.


The Numerology AU

As I mentioned early on, once I have the MonoNote running smoothly as an AU, getting other Numerology modules to run as plugins is not all that hard -- it still takes some work to "port" things over, test them, deal with AU-specific oddities and all, but all that is manageable. The goal, of course, is to be able to load entire Numerology stacks as plugin instances, and I think that is likely possible, but everything cannot happen at once. First I have to verify that the MonoNoteAU is a practical sequencing solution, then port the other sequencing modules to build the FSK, and (at pretty much the same time), put together N3 and N3 Pro. (There is a lot of overlap between N3 and the FSK in terms of UI development).

Then, when that is all together, I'll start implementing a way to host full Numerology stacks (with all modules) within a plugin. When that happens, the resulting "Numerology AU" will be part of N3 Pro, but will appear in a release after 3.0 itself (probably 3.1). So even if you are only ever interested in running Numerology as an AU, there is significant motivation to get N3 Pro during the trial period, as you will save some money.

New Purchasers

If you purchased (or purchase) Numerology on or after October 15th 2009, then you can get a Numerology 3 license/serial number for free. You would still have to pay the crossgrade if you want the FSK, or to upgrade to N3 Pro, but you will of course be eligible for discounted pricing during the trial period. To request the N3 serial number, just send an email to Five12 anytime after the first N3 build becomes available.

That's all for now. Feel free to ask any questions you like. Some of them I'll be able to answer now, but others I may not be able answer for a while.

Cheers,
Jim

[bagger288]

looks great! can't wait for all the fun new stuff.

[qphatty]

Very fair & reasonable. Bring it on brother!

[Per Boysen]

Feel free to ask any questions you like.

How about also including "per-stack MIDI recording" in N3 Pro?

Or even better up: a "MIDI Recorder Module" to route wherever you want to snag the passing MIDI and have a MIDI file generated on the drive.

Motivation:
I would personally love that because it would open up the possibility to use N3 Pro more like an advanced composition tool/sketch pad. I mean, not worrying about practical sound design while creating the music as MIDI texture with all its gestures, direction and movements. For monitoring you can use simple low CPU instruments with a generic response to the usual CC#'s. Then import the generated MIDI file into another host that works in a linear way and is more focused on traditional sound design (Logic, Cubase, Pro Tools etc).

[jonmoore]

Looking forward to the future development. The Cross-grade pricing seems more than fair.

JM

http://leftside-wobble.blogspot.com/

[jim]

How about also including "per-stack MIDI recording" in N3 Pro?

Or even better up: a "MIDI Recorder Module" to route wherever you want to snag the passing MIDI and have a MIDI file generated on the drive.


MIDI Recording (and some kind of MIDI import) are both on the N3 Pro development list, but I can't say yet what the priority is (i.e. 3.0 or 3.1).

Cheers,
Jim

[Sjoerd]

Awesome !!

Btw, can you perhaps consider adding a minor 3.0.3 version to the planning schedule for some arbitrary purpose? :) Just to please my personal numerological preferences, nothing serious. :p

[kaioconnell]

I'm with Per on the midi-record bandwagon. :D

[XMS]

Sound great Jim. I want it all. So please, forget about all this upgrade pricing systems, etc.. You code, we pay. Almost anything. And so far it looks pretty promising. Can't wait and need it tomorrow :D

XMS

[pievo]

mmhhh... can't wait for N3Pro; specially for user-definable scales and logic-modules. I am dreaming of a "function-module" where you can define your own algorithms..
I am with XMS "You code we pay"... and play... ;-))

pievo

[M.A.N.U.]

N3 Pro:

- Extensive OSC support
- A new remote-control protocol, with both MIDI and OSC support
- New logic modules
- New audio processing modules
- New synthesis options
- Programmable user scales
- Per-stack audio recording
- Support for multi-output AU's (and sidechain inputs)
- Many other items

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I'm back to production since two weeks... I want that stuff !!

Jim, you aren't a god, but not so far.

[Sjoerd]

"You code, we pray." :p

[vanhaze]

Just amazing stuff coming up , i want it all !!

[jim]

Gosh, and there's all sorts o cool stuff I *didn't* mention yet... ;)

Jim

[MrBiggs]

Any chance of talking you into making the manual for 3.0 (or 2.2) a PDF? I find this current linky html manual thing to be overly tedious. I would like very much to load up my laser printer, print the whole thing, and read it while not staring at the laptop.

thanks

[jim]

A pdf manual is very high on the 3.0 todo list.

Cheers,
Jim

[baltimoroder]

@MrBiggs

http://www.fogcreek.com/FogBugz/blog/post/Website-To-PDF.aspx

[jim]

I know that the MonoNote has a random jump function, but I would like to see a chance funtction: this would set the chance that a step is played: ex.: setting chance to 75% gives you 75% that the note on the step is played and 25% chance that the note is just silence (the step will be a rest).

Is it also possible to create a random note function that chooses a random note from a group of notes?


All worth considering, I'm going to move your original post to Feature Requests so I can track it easier.

And also: will you ever consider making a Windows version, or is that not possible?

Possible, but too time consuming to consider right now.

Cheers,
Jim

[TWINSTATES]

Gosh, and there's all sorts o cool stuff I *didn't* mention yet... ;)

Jim

How exciting, i womder if a discussion that we had about composition and trsansform techniques via email might have borne some numerology related fruit.

That would be very exciting if there was some kind of spatial transform module :)))))))

[TwoToneshuzz]

Hello Jim

Being a new user of Numerology I had not expected to be met by news of an eminent upgrades, so my reaction is one of both pleasure and worry for on the one hand it's not that often that I experience getting more than what I paid for but on the other hand I can't help thinking that if it's not broken don't fix it!!

The idea of some kind of a midi recorder within the program perhaps as a pane in the mixer window is a very high priority for me because:

1 I could record live midi content into the program, without having to think about using a host, less windows less clutter maximize creativity

2. for recording my actions while performing a numerology "score" That is to say preset changes, fades aux sends levels muting, sequence changes.

Coupling the midi recorder with an editor with a list style interface. These functions would make it possible to make Numerology into a total stand alone production tool.. Refinements to the mixer by adding groups and one touch programmable auto fade ins/outs are a couple other things that could make perfroming a numerology score more intuitive..

One more thing that could be helpful would be more control over CPU resources for multi core systems.. Although there might be third party solutions that could take care of that aspect.. Yellow Tools "Freedom" for example..

I'm loving this Numerology concept, thanks for creating a great system!!

Regards

Wade

[jim]

MIDI recording (and SMF import of some sort) is definitely on the 3.0 list. It will probably start very simple, with a per-stack recording option.

Cheers,
Jim

[Scottylad]

Jim:

The new developments are exciting, but I too am concerned that such a bifurcated code path may slow development. I feel that the price is already very reasonable, so perhaps all roads could lead to Pro. I do like the idea of a sequencer as an AU insert though, and I know that MIDI output from an AU "breaks the rules" and is a technical challenge (VST's don't have this limitation).

I'd also like to throw in my two cents again for a request that I posted before: a "snapshot sequencer" module. This would be a huge win, and would allow some fairly complex passages by automating the selection of snapshots.

I am aware that you can trigger snapshots with MIDI notes or program changes. With a snapshot sequencer though, it would be ideal if you could trigger a different snapshot after a predefined number of bars. A further enhancement would be the ability to vary the number of bars (For instance, trigger a snapshot after 4 bars, then the next snapshot after 8 bars, etc.). And of course, the ability to specify which snapshot to switch to so that you could trigger them out of order would top it off nicely.

The snapshot sequencer could also be configured to loop (with potential direction changes) or act as a one-shot (step through all snapshots defined in the sequence and then stop). This has the added benefit of being able to simply trigger a single snapshot and play for a specified number of bars and then stop, which is helpful for sending a string of MIDI events to a DAW for further processing.

The design could be very similar to that of the current mono sequencer. Imagine, similar to the monophonic sequencer, if you had a group of snapshot-selection sliders (or a matrix) at the top (these would choose which snapshot is triggered, say 1 through 16). Underneath, you'd have other slider values similar to the mono sequencer's gate, etc. However, these would select how long (in bars) each step lasts before the next snapshot is chosen.

This "metasequencer" would be an extremely powerful tool - I'd love to see it in N3/Pro!

Keep up the great work!

[jim]

Jim:

The new developments are exciting, but I too am concerned that such a bifurcated code path may slow development. I feel that the price is already very reasonable, so perhaps all roads could lead to Pro. I do like the idea of a sequencer as an AU insert though, and I know that MIDI output from an AU "breaks the rules" and is a technical challenge (VST's don't have this limitation).

Doing the AU does slow things down a bit, but in addition to the obvious improvements in integration options, the changes I'm implementing will strengthen the overall code base significantly -- much as the ReWire driver and the AU implementation for ReWire did. I am modifying quite a bit of the low-level code to support running as an AU, but very few of the changes only benefit the AU. Most of the code specific to the AU is within a single C++ class, and probably less than 100 lines of code are specific to the MonoNote itself.

And, as much as a PITA much of this coding is, one of the benefits of the AU development is that it gives me a chance to re-examine many details about Numerology's design. For instance, the new UI, the preset playlist, and an important change to AU hosting (being able to switch AU's within the module) will all benefit the standalone program.

You are correct about VST's and MIDI, however the problem there is the version issue: It would better for me to use VST 3 with Cubase, but Live only supports VST 2 -- if I remember correctly. Nonetheless, it is something I'm looking into.

I'd also like to throw in my two cents again for a request that I posted before: a "snapshot sequencer" module. This would be a huge win, and would allow some fairly complex passages by automating the selection of snapshots.

I am aware that you can trigger snapshots with MIDI notes or program changes. With a snapshot sequencer though, it would be ideal if you could trigger a different snapshot after a predefined number of bars. A further enhancement would be the ability to vary the number of bars (For instance, trigger a snapshot after 4 bars, then the next snapshot after 8 bars, etc.). And of course, the ability to specify which snapshot to switch to so that you could trigger them out of order would top it off nicely.

The snapshot sequencer could also be configured to loop (with potential direction changes) or act as a one-shot (step through all snapshots defined in the sequence and then stop). This has the added benefit of being able to simply trigger a single snapshot and play for a specified number of bars and then stop, which is helpful for sending a string of MIDI events to a DAW for further processing.

The design could be very similar to that of the current mono sequencer. Imagine, similar to the monophonic sequencer, if you had a group of snapshot-selection sliders (or a matrix) at the top (these would choose which snapshot is triggered, say 1 through 16). Underneath, you'd have other slider values similar to the mono sequencer's gate, etc. However, these would select how long (in bars) each step lasts before the next snapshot is chosen.

This "metasequencer" would be an extremely powerful tool - I'd love to see it in N3/Pro!

Keep up the great work!

This sounds to me like the preset playlist from the AU combined with some "event control" options -- possibly even an 'event' sequencer. This idea of exposing events and using them for composition is a meme I'm starting to see regularly. Numerology has an extensive event mechanism internally, so it seems like the thing to do is to start exposing that a bit. Of course, the "MIDI" streams within the program are events, but there should be more of them, as well as connection and processing options for events, modules to generate them, etc, etc....

Cheers,
Jim

[kodama]

I have a very short list of things I would like to see for N2 (Gate CV module CC bug, disable midi devices, option to have presets stop when not pressed), but I am excited for N3 Pro & the sequencers and even willing to prepay for this! :cool:

[TWINSTATES]

This idea of exposing events and using them for composition is a meme I'm starting to see regularly

Can you explain a bit more please?

Also, the ability to take snapshots of your hosted au (i.e. Arturia's CS80 or something and to be able to sequence the selection of snapshots / presets - that would be pretty f*cking rad. It wouldn't work with sample based Au's but I think it would with the synthesis ones. Some sort of morphing between snapshots could also be cool. . .

Also, any chance of a notation module? i know this might sound esoteric for some but i have just picked up William Russo's Composition book as well as Mathieu's book on harmony so it would be awesome to be able to use Numerology for this (as Ableton doesn't have notation input and I am not going to learn another sequencer like Sibelius, i'd rather rock paper and a pencil I think).. .

It would make numerology quite a fierce composition tool I reckon. . .

[jim]

"This idea of exposing events and using them for composition is a meme I'm starting to see regularly

Can you explain a bit more please?"


See this thread: http://www.five12.com/vbForum/showthread.php?t=679
and this one: http://www.five12.com/vbForum/showthread.php?t=675

In both cases, there is the desire to trigger some action (changing presets, resetting presets, or randomizing a sequence) and that idea follows an event model more than say, just changing a parameter. There are also several 'event' type things you can perform on a sequence: invert, shift left, shift right, reset, etc. However, there is no clear idea of an event from the UI perspective, and no obvious way to control them, either from MIDI, or from an internal control source (like a sequencer).

On the other hand, parameters in Numerology are a more clearly defined concept -- you can use MIDI learn on almost any parameter, and you can use ParamMod to control them in interesting ways. In fact, the way that MIDI learn and ParamMod work on the invert and shift functions of a sequencer is that those are really events masquerading as parameters. The reason for them to pretend to be parameters is that Numerology doesn't have a way (yet) to have MIDI learn on "events" or a way to trigger such events. I think that is something that should be addressed, and I think that having a clean event system could lead to some very interesting compositional directions.


Also, the ability to take snapshots of your hosted au (i.e. Arturia's CS80 or something and to be able to sequence the selection of snapshots / presets - that would be pretty f*cking rad. It wouldn't work with sample based Au's but I think it would with the synthesis ones. Some sort of morphing between snapshots could also be cool. . .

Both snapshots and morphing should be pretty easy, but in order to get accurate timing on preset changes, the change has to happen on the render thread, and some AU's really don't like to have their presets changed on the render thread.

Also, any chance of a notation module? i know this might sound esoteric for some but i have just picked up William Russo's Composition book as well as Mathieu's book on harmony so it would be awesome to be able to use Numerology for this (as Ableton doesn't have notation input and I am not going to learn another sequencer like Sibelius, i'd rather rock paper and a pencil I think).. .

It would make numerology quite a fierce composition tool I reckon. . .

Notation, at least, any sort of traditional notation, is really difficult to do well, but I do find it to be an interesting request...

Cheers,
Jim

[kodama]

Notation seems so counter to Numerology's focus.

As far as "rendering" midi, I always just record directly to Live.

If you haven't converted all of your CVs to midi, you might be disappointed in the results anyways...

As far as sequencing presets, the timeline already does this in a linear way. Live handles this by clip follow actions, there is this % chance that a certain clip (next/previous/first/last/random) will play after X number of iterations of the currently playing clip.

[MAXWITHMAX]

Can't wait 4 the upgrade to Num lvl 3 !!!! Jim you RULE! :)

[TWINSTATES]

Notation seems so counter to Numerology's focus.

Interesting,

How so? I think it's far closer than you think. I am talking from a composition point of view.

Due to the fact I can't play notes into Numerology it forces one to think about music as a composer, rather than a performer. you might be just plonking stuff in randomly and that works obviously but if one wants to go further then the software guides you to think along the lines of a traditional composer - i.e. work out the melody before / as you enter the parameters.


I realised after using Num for a bit that although I can knock out some fairly decent music, I could do witha lot more 'real' music training.

So i figured i'd start with two of the best recommended books (oh and btw Jim thanks for the other book tip, it's out of print but I have a copy coming from the states I think).

Notation, at least, any sort of traditional notation, is really difficult to do well, but I do find it to be an interesting request...
Cheers,
Jim[/QUOTE]

I know literally close to zero about notation. I could just about write some of my stuff out given enough time, manuscript, a pencil, sharpener and an eraser :)

As I mentioned earlier in my post I thought that could be an excellent composition sketch pad. obviously it has to be coded and I guess that might not be as easy as one would hope!

[kaioconnell]

Kind of in line with the composition comments, I would really like for there to be an option on the seq step labels that would make them display the actual note (or interval) that is being output when you switch to minor or phrygian or someday to user defined scales. Also being able to set the enharmonic preference for sharps or flats would be great for those times when you want to think in E. While in some ways these are perhaps small things, as I should probably just use my ears, it would still make composition a much more smooth process.

Thanks for all the awesome work Jim, look forward to the next release, hopefully the job market will be kind by then so I can upgrade ASAP to Pro :D.

[jim]

Kind of in line with the composition comments, I would really like for there to be an option on the seq step labels that would make them display the actual note (or interval) that is being output when you switch to minor or phrygian or someday to user defined scales. Also being able to set the enharmonic preference for sharps or flats would be great for those times when you want to think in E. While in some ways these are perhaps small things, as I should probably just use my ears, it would still make composition a much more smooth process.

If you look in the "advanced settings" panel for most sequencers, there is a "Seq Step Labels" menu for changing the readout for each step. I'm also adding your notes to mine on tunings and scales to include better options for naming notes, those are all good suggestions.

Thanks for all the awesome work Jim, look forward to the next release, hopefully the job market will be kind by then so I can upgrade ASAP to Pro :D.

You're welcome! I'm going to be (nearly) full-time on N3 very soon now...

Jim

[M.A.N.U.]

Hi !

Do you plan to code "simple" synthesis modules ?

I'm looking for a specific instrument ; kind of simple FM/substractive blipbox with ;

- 8x osc
- ADSR env. for each oscillator
- 8x multimode filters
- ADSR env. for each filter
- 1x noise-generator
- 1x ADSR env. for it

That's all ! I have AraldFX dks pro, but I don't like the sound very much. I prefer Max/msp-like sound, or nord lead's rythmic kts (apart kicks)

And I don't think there are many drumboxes like this on the software market.

My computer is a bit old now ; it doesn't like rewire and multitask at all, I know I have a bad issue on the motherboard. Apple can fix it... for 800 euros ^^

So, I have to plan on a really optimized workstation, with less non-native plugins ! Live is cool, but I can't groove like N2 sequencer now ! :)

Cheers

PS : Oh, or if you don't, maybe do you have some tips to code my own ?

[jim]

Hi !
Do you plan to code "simple" synthesis modules ?


Yes, actually... I want to have a basic set of synthesis modules that fit well with the others.

I'm looking for a specific instrument ; kind of simple FM/substractive blipbox with ;

- 8x osc
- ADSR env. for each oscillator
- 8x multimode filters
- ADSR env. for each filter
- 1x noise-generator
- 1x ADSR env. for it


Those will all be covered. The current envelope will be beefed up a bit to work properly at synthesis rates (and the LFO). I have a prototype multi-mode filter floating around, and some interesting ideas for an oscillator. Both VCA's and noise generators are pretty easy. The great thing about all modular systems is that it only takes a few flexible modules to create a wide range of synthesis options.

PS : Oh, or if you don't, maybe do you have some tips to code my own ?

Well, there are a lot of AU's out there, and many of them are cheap or free, and any decent analog-emulation plugin can create good drum sounds-- it is just a matter of setting up a stack to host several of them at a time.

Another option that I often use is to get my hands on some real analog gear, spend an hour or so recording blips and bloops and sample editing them to make sounds for the DrumKit module. It doesn't have a pitch envelope, but it does have individual outs so you can do quite a bit with each voice.

Cheers,
Jim

[kodama]

Maybe you could contract Urs to make some modules?

[jim]

Maybe you could contract Urs to make some modules?

I had considered that a while back, but it really doesn't make much sense on many levels. Most synthesis algorithms are actually quite easy to write. It took me all of two days to find and modify a low-pass filter algorithm to make a usable module, the only trick is that I need to mess w/ the gain coefficients a bit to get the resonance response I want. On the oscillator side, I've been itching to do a nice scanning-wavetable algorithm for a while. I'm not terribly interested in trying to emulate specific hardware, but that doesn't mean we can't have something that sounds good and is a lot of fun to use. And since I've got a Moog Voyager and a eurorack modular sitting behind me all day long, I do know what the real stuff sounds like....

Cheers,
Jim

[kodama]

Honestly, I just wanted n2 to sequence with. If those functions are solid, any synth stuff would totally be icing.

[M.A.N.U.]

Those will all be covered. The current envelope will be beefed up a bit to work properly at synthesis rates (and the LFO). I have a prototype multi-mode filter floating around, and some interesting ideas for an oscillator. Both VCA's and noise generators are pretty easy. The great thing about all modular systems is that it only takes a few flexible modules to create a wide range of synthesis options.


Good to know :)

But I have forgotten the important thing of my message :mad:

... Pitch envelope ? Or "simple" (I don't know if it is easy to code) modular features (plug envelope module to vco's tune) ?

Well, there are a lot of AU's out there, and many of them are cheap or free, and any decent analog-emulation plugin can create good drum sounds--

Yeah I know... But I don't like most of them. I don't like the "substractive" perc. sounds, I prefer FM synthesis for main drum sounds, and some substractive sounds for some blips and noises.

However, I plan to make my own FM DIY synth with Ucapps, next years. I really like these boxes...

it is just a matter of setting up a stack to host several of them at a time.

Big matter. I have issues with this !

I try to make a big "drums" stack with 4 drumkits, and 4 DKS ; with only one matrixseq module. But I can't assign notes on matrixseq ; so, I can't change sounds randomly, with lfo's. I don't know how to do, I'll search again.

Another option that I often use is to get my hands on some real analog gear

Yep, I want :) It is an option for the future.

Thanks ! N3 will be the One, I guess.

Honestly, I just wanted n2 to sequence with. If those functions are solid, any synth stuff would totally be icing.

Different approach :) Imo, I'm alright with what you said (My music often is heavily-sequenced, and I never do sequencing without spending many hours on it !), but I know quite precisely the sounds I want. And if they are native, it's better for my computer...

[jim]

... Pitch envelope ? Or "simple" (I don't know if it is easy to code) modular features (plug envelope module to vco's tune) ?


There will be *lots* of modulation options: linear pitch, log pitch, etc. etc. Setting up a pitch envelope will be easy, as will linear FM. I'm a big fan of audio-rate modulation so you can expect to see plenty of options for that.

I try to make a big "drums" stack with 4 drumkits, and 4 DKS ; with only one matrixseq module. But I can't assign notes on matrixseq ; so, I can't change sounds randomly, with lfo's. I don't know how to do, I'll search again.


To set notes directly for rows in the MatrixSeq, just click and drag on the note names. Up and down for the note and left and right for the octave. There's no way to modulate those values yet, but you're welcome to request it. However, you can easily shift all notes in a column up and down by plugging the output of an IntervalSeq into the PitchIn port of the MatrixSeq, or by using the NoteProcessor to randomize things a bit...

Cheers,
Jim

[jim]

Honestly, I just wanted n2 to sequence with. If those functions are solid, any synth stuff would totally be icing.

Sequencing is and will remain the core -- 90% of what is planned for N3 is about making sequencing better and better, at all levels. However, there are many benefits to extending the basic sampling options that are there now with a few synthesis oriented modules and a couple effects (delay, ringmod). As anyone who has used a modular synth knows, it doesn't take many different types of modules to have a really, really good time...

Jim

[kaioconnell]

If you look in the "advanced settings" panel for most sequencers, there is a "Seq Step Labels" menu for changing the readout for each step. I'm also adding your notes to mine on tunings and scales to include better options for naming notes, those are all good suggestions.

I guess it would be easier to explain with a picture, I can email one to illustrate better if you'd like. But what I had meant is that if, in advanced settings, I select [Seq Step Labels]=[Note Name], and put the seq in say, C Maj, it will move and display chromatically, while outputting diatonically. (ie the note display says Db3, even though it's really outputting D3) When moving the sliders, it would make life easier if it just said what the output would actually (D3) be, as opposed to what it would have been if I had selected chromatic scale mode. Same thing for intervals, I don't want to know that it would have been a ii when it's actually outputting a II whether I'm on the fader position for ii or II. if need be for other peoples compositional styles, there could be a switch to go between the current display method and the Diatonic Display Method (DDM- now trademarked in 13 counties and municipalities ;) )

I know this probably isn't a big deal to most, and I'm probably coming off as a pain, I just keep doing the, "wait, what's a B natural doing in that sequence, I thought I was in Ab Phrygian... oh yeah, nevermind."

Still Happy, just easily confused,
Kai

[jim]

I guess it would be easier to explain with a picture, I can email one to illustrate better if you'd like. But what I had meant is that if, in advanced settings, I select [Seq Step Labels]=[Note Name], and put the seq in say, C Maj, it will move and display chromatically, while outputting diatonically. (ie the note display says Db3, even though it's really outputting D3) When moving the sliders, it would make life easier if it just said what the output would actually (D3) be, as opposed to what it would have been if I had selected chromatic scale mode. Same thing for intervals, I don't want to know that it would have been a ii when it's actually outputting a II whether I'm on the fader position for ii or II. if need be for other peoples compositional styles, there could be a switch to go between the current display method and the Diatonic Display Method (DDM- now trademarked in 13 counties and municipalities ;) )

I know this probably isn't a big deal to most, and I'm probably coming off as a pain, I just keep doing the, "wait, what's a B natural doing in that sequence, I thought I was in Ab Phrygian... oh yeah, nevermind."


Ahh, I see. Yes, I can understand the confusion. I can think of another issue as well : what if you want most notes to be in a scale (i.e. quantized), but want just one or two accidentals. Perhaps the set scale should force all notes and new notes into an acceptable value, but allow an option-drag to set an arbitrary note.

Really what is there right now is just a quantizer that is applied on output. I'm re-thinking the whole quantizer & scale thing in preparation for custom scales and tunings, so you can definitely expect some improvement there...

Jim

[kaioconnell]

awesometastic :D
sooo looking forward to N3

[empirix]

i guess im the only one who thinks $80 is a bit steep for an upgrade from 2 to the pro version!!

[bleeps]

i guess im the only one who thinks $80 is a bit steep for an upgrade from 2 to the pro version!!

It seems fair to me, though one can't really say till we see a detailed feature list. From the initial notes it sounds like Jim's putting a lot of work into N3 pro (synthesis modules!) to compete with fuller production packages like Ableton Live. Live's upgrade prices are almost twice as much. Also, there is the discount period for upgrades that should reduce the $80 cost for a limited time.

[bagger288]

numerology has always been a bargain. It's more solid, stable, and efficient than software that costs far more, and is much more inspiring. included in the price is the incomparable customer service as well :).

[empirix]

i agree the customer service is brilliant, to compare this with abelton though, cmon, i love numerology but i am just saying the pro version would want to come with some great new features, well a lot of them too and also a comprehensive manual

[Sjoerd]

I think Numerology is worth every single penny a few times over, and then some. :-)

[bleeps]

i agree the customer service is brilliant, to compare this with abelton though, cmon, i love numerology but i am just saying the pro version would want to come with some great new features, well a lot of them too and also a comprehensive manual

I'm sorry, I think you misunderstood me. I'm not comparing N2 with Ableton. I'm talking about the new features proposed for N3 Pro. On that note, have you read Ableton's manual? It's nowhere near comprehensive. :) You still need to look stuff up online and consult forums.

[blurk]

i agree the customer service is brilliant, to compare this with abelton though, cmon, i love numerology but i am just saying the pro version would want to come with some great new features, well a lot of them too and also a comprehensive manual
The way I read it, you are getting a bunch of great new features. For the $80, you are getting not only the upgrade from N2 to N3, but also the extra features of N3 pro over N3 (remember, for people who don't have N2, the upgrade is also $80 to go from N3 to N3 pro).

[empirix]

fair enough!:)

[Sifaka]

I would really like to check out the mononote au.
Right now im really tempted to buy sugar bytes Thesys, but like to know if the five12 seq kit would be a better choice.
Is there any way I could test them ?

[jim]

Well, of course I think the MonoNote AU would be a better choice... ;) However, it is not yet ready for public consumption. I should have more news on it later this month. In the meanwhile, I'd recommend giving the current build a try in ReWire mode, esp. with a Launchpad attached...

Cheers,
Jim

[Sifaka]

Thanks Jim,
I had a go at numerology last night, running it in rewire mode, and i'm really impressed by it's possibilities.
I wonder though, does it have the same routing possibilities when using it as an au ?
I mean, can i stick a note quantizer or modulation module with the mono/polynote au ?
Or build anything that's possible in the rewire version ?

[jim]

Thanks Jim,
I had a go at numerology last night, running it in rewire mode, and i'm really impressed by it's possibilities.
I wonder though, does it have the same routing possibilities when using it as an au ?
I mean, can i stick a note quantizer or modulation module with the mono/polynote au ?
Or build anything that's possible in the rewire version ?

The MonoNote AU will not, but the goal of the full Numerology AU is to load an entire stack.

Cheers,
Jim

[sbaishya]

Jim,

Will there be both instrument and FX versions of the Audio Units?

Cheers.

[jim]

Will there be both instrument and FX versions of the Audio Units?


There will definitely be instrument versions of the sequencers, but I can't say about FX yet, at least ones with sequencers in them. The problem is that AU hosts often don't render FX plugins unless they have to, whether the transport is running or not, which causes obvious problems for transport-locked sequencers

Jim

[sbaishya]

OK, cheers.